The view from Tehran: Iran's VP Zarif on Israel, Gaza & US complicity in ongoing conflicts

Transcript

Listen: The Middle East finds itself teetering on the brink of a full-scale regional conflict as the world marks one year since the October 7th Hamas attacks. Israel has intensified its military operations against Iran-backed forces across multiple fronts, leaving destruction in its wake. In the span of a week, the assassination of Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah and Israel’s ground offensive into Lebanon have thrown gasoline on an already raging fire.

On this episode of the GZERO World Podcast, Ian Bremmer sits down with Iran's Vice President for Strategic Affairs Mohammad Javad Zarif, just before the Nasrallah assassination news broke. They discuss Iran's recent actions during this critical time. In their conversation, Zarif discusses the conflict’s broader regional impact, Iran’s right to self-defense, and its determination that Iran will not fall into Israel’s “trap.” Zarif also weighs in on the upcoming US presidential election, speculating on whether a Harris or Trump administration would benefit Iran, and addresses the rumors of an alleged Iranian plot to assassinate former President Donald Trump. He says, "We don’t send people to assassinate people. I think it’s a campaign ploy." Zarif adds that, despite the new Iranian President’s pledge for a rapprochement with the West, recent developments have only driven the wedge further. And with Israel now in northern Lebanon, Iran now stands at a crossroads of what to do next.

Transcript: The view from Tehran: Iran's VP Zarif on Israel, Gaza & US complicity in ongoing conflicts

Ian Bremmer:

Hello and welcome to the GZERO World Podcast. I'm Ian Bremmer, and this is where you can find extended versions of the conversations on my public television show. This week, I'm bringing you a rare perspective from inside the Iranian government at a moment when the Middle East is on the brink of conflagration. As the one-year anniversary of the October 7th Hamas attacks approaches, Israel has ratcheted up its regional strikes against Iran-backed proxy forces across the Middle East. The IDF continues to pummel Gaza and bulldoze the West Bank and Israeli fighter jets drop hundreds of bombs in Lebanon and Yemen. And just last week, Israel's government shocked the world by announcing that it had killed Hezbollah's iconic leader, Hassan Nasrallah in a Beirut bombing. And earlier this week, Israeli troops entered Lebanon for the first time since 2006, in what the government is calling “limited ground offensives” for now at least.

And for the second time this year, Iran launched ballistic missiles at Israel this week claiming there would be more to come if Israel attacks Iran directly. So far, Israel has been able to act with virtual impunity, and I spoke with my guest, Iranian Vice President Javad Zarif shortly before the Nasrallah assassination news broke. But even then, Zarif who served as Iran's foreign minister until 2021, wanted to make one point clear: Israel is not invincible.

That was the lesson he claims the world learned from Hamas's devastating October 7th attack. My takeaway from the past few months is pretty much the opposite. Aside from a handful of Hezbollah and Iranian missiles sneaking through the Iron Dome, Israel has thus far faced virtually no consequences for its escalations. Iran's new president, a former cardiac surgeon who beat out a field of hardliners in the election, has vowed to find common ground with the West and is clearly uneasy about escalating things. Meanwhile, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu recently enjoyed his first major bump on the polls since the October 7th attack. But how far could Israel push its luck? And how far will Tehran's restraint extend?

We talk about all that and more with Iran's Vice President Javad Zarif. So let's get to it. Vice President Zarif, welcome to GZERO.

Javad Zarif:

Good to be with you.

Ian Bremmer:

So there's a lot to talk about in the world in your region right now. The biggest news is that the war, which has been going on for almost a year now in Gaza, is also now threatening to explode in the so-called Northern front in Lebanon. How do you relate to this intensification of the conflict?

Javad Zarif:

Well, I think my analysis of the war in Gaza was that Israel lost in two fronts. One was its invincibility. The Israeli narrative in our region was that Israeli army is invincible, and it has proven itself to be invincible in every fight that it had with formal armies, 7 days, 20 days, it won.

Ian Bremmer:

The various wars over the past decades.

Javad Zarif:

Decades.

Ian Bremmer:

Egypt, Lebanon, you name it. Yeah.

Javad Zarif:

Yeah. This time was different.

Ian Bremmer:

You mean specifically on October 7th?

Javad Zarif:

Yeah, October 7th and afterwards. It was different and the Israelis weren't able to achieve the stated objectives of destroying Hamas. And I think they won't be able to achieve it, not any time soon and not ever in my view. So the myth of Israeli invincibility is gone and I think that's a major loss for Israel. And I believe I analyze in my analysis, it's simply to understand, not to condone. Certainly I won't condone it, but the amount of violence Israel is conducting against civilians, which is horrible, is because it wants to somehow restore that invincibility through fear and through intimidation. Won't happen.

Ian Bremmer:

You're giving the Iranian perspective. The Israeli perspective is very different. So for example, Netanyahu's Likud party for the first time since October 7th, is now polling ahead of the other parties. They believe that they have nearly destroyed Hamas's military leadership, its capabilities, its tunnels. Of course, their political leader when he was in Tehran for the Iranian inauguration, they also clearly assassinated. So their narrative is very different.

Javad Zarif:

Well, terrorism doesn't give you invincibility. And I think if that is the perception, they're fooling themselves. The perception in the Arab world is certainly not that. And the Arabs have a new confidence that they can withstand Israeli military might. And I think that's important. That's a psychological condition, not the real condition on the ground. But even if you talk about the real condition on the ground, Hamas's military, I mean a lot of death, 41,000 people killed, destruction all over the place. But Hamas is still capable of inflicting heavy damage on Israel.

Ian Bremmer:

Do you believe in terms of the broader Palestinian cause, which of course is getting a lot more attention today than it was before October 7th, from everywhere in my country, in your country, in the Gulf, everywhere.

Javad Zarif:

You remember, Netanyahu came before the General Assembly of the United Nations last year, just a few days before October 7th, and showed a map in which there was no Palestine. And he said, "Our relations with the rest of the Arab world, 98% of the Arab world is going to be good and the 2%, meaning Palestinians, can do whatever they want." That was the perception that he had at that time. And I think for the Palestinians, it was a matter of life and death.

And that is why anybody who says, "Is the cost of so many casualties worth it?" I tell them that this is up to the Palestinians to decide. But you got to put yourself in their shoes and see the situation they were living under, a big open prison in Gaza, and the fact that they were being forgotten. Now, as you say, and rightly so, the Palestinian issue is top on the agenda of the international community once again after so many years. And I think that's important. So my second point, and I told you Israel has lost on two grounds, one is invincibility, and the second thing was victimization. Israel presented itself as the victim, victim of Holocaust, victim of Arab terrorism-

Ian Bremmer:

Victim of antisemitism which is growing around the world.

Javad Zarif:

Antisemitism. Now, it lost that with the hospital. Until the hospitals that victimization could-

Ian Bremmer:

You're talking about the hospitals that have been bombed-

Javad Zarif:

With Shifa Hospital in Gaza-

Ian Bremmer:

That was bombed by Israel at the beginning of the war.

Javad Zarif:

At the beginning of the war and since then.

Ian Bremmer:

Again, which they claim were Hamas operatives on the ground.

Javad Zarif:

Yeah, and everybody found out that that was bogus. So now we have Israel losing the two pillars of its policy, invincibility, victimization. And now the Israeli narrative on foreign policy is gone. It cannot be restored, at least until now it hasn't been able to restore it. And that is the reason for this huge violence that Israeli is pushing both in Gaza and in Lebanon. Now, in Lebanon, I think it's even more dangerous because-

Ian Bremmer:

Because Hezbollah has much greater military capabilities.

Javad Zarif:

Much greater military capability, and it has exercised a lot of restraint. And once it stopped exercising restraint, then you can have an all-out war, which would be much different than the war in Gaza. And that is why it would be prudent for the international community to take serious action. The action that it has failed to take over the past 11 months.

Ian Bremmer:

In Gaza.

Javad Zarif:

In Gaza, in order to end this. Now, Gaza was a humanitarian catastrophe-

Ian Bremmer:

Is a-

Javad Zarif:

It continues to be a humanitarian catastrophe. This can be a security catastrophe. And I think the best, unfortunately, unfortunately, is less concerned about the humanitarian catastrophe than about a security catastrophe.

Ian Bremmer:

When you look at Israel's relationship, you said Hezbollah has acted with restraint. Iran to a degree, has acted with restraint.

Javad Zarif:

Oh, huge restraint.

Ian Bremmer:

That's a debate, right? Because on the one hand you have the Axis of Resistance where there are all sorts of attacks that are growing in the Red Sea with the Houthis and others in Syria and Iraq. On the other hand, when Israel targeted killed a senior Iranian official in Syria, a lot of people were concerned this was going to lead to an all-out war between Israel and Iran. That hasn't happened. When the Israelis assassinated the Hamas political leader in Tehran, so far at least, we haven't seen an Iranian response unless I'm missing one.

Javad Zarif:

No. You see, Iran has reserved the right to respond at the time of its choosing and we haven't given up that right. It is there, and we will choose the time to respond because that's our right. Self-defense is the right that we have.

Ian Bremmer:

So you're saying a response will come, is what you were saying.

Javad Zarif:

It may come at the time of our choosing. However, we have exercised a great deal of restraint. Our response to the killing of our people in Syria, the hitting of our embassy in Syria was seriously restrained, severely restrained because we knew that Israel was trapped in a box of its own making. And it wanted to get out by expanding the war and dragging the United States and Iran into this war. And we thought that was not prudent.

And I think on that, we agreed with the United States and the rest of the international community. And that is why we exercised a lot of restraint. Now, the restraint after the murder assassination of the late martyr, Ismail Haniyeh-

Ian Bremmer:

The political leader of Hamas who was living in Qatar.

Javad Zarif:

Who was living in Qatar, came to Iran for the inauguration of our president. And now look at it. Anytime Iran had an opportunity to engage with the international community, Israel made sure to block it. Whether JCPOA, whether it was-

Ian Bremmer:

Iranian nuclear deal.

Javad Zarif:

You remember. Israel I mean, Netanyahu has said in his book that his first priority was to kill the deal. A deal that would have-

Ian Bremmer:

He came to Congress and said that, absolutely.

Javad Zarif:

He said that. He said that all along. And that deal ostensibly prevented Iran from building a nuclear weapon that he's screaming about. We never wanted to build a nuclear weapon and that is why I argue that-

Ian Bremmer:

And the Iranians are much closer to that weapon today-

Javad Zarif:

Because of Trump.

Ian Bremmer:

Because he unilaterally pulled out of the Iranian nuclear deal.

Javad Zarif:

If we ever wanted to build a nuclear weapon we would be very close to it today. I believe, I mean talking a bit more technically, I believe that the entire Iranian nuclear dossier is more securitization than security in Barry Buzan's terminology. That is Israel has tried to portray Iran as a threat because if Israel felt a threat from the Iranian nuclear program, it should have embraced JCPOA because at least it would have-

Ian Bremmer:

Because that was creating constraints, inspections, all the rest on the Iranian-

Javad Zarif:

Basically making an Iranian nuclear bomb impossible at least for 15 years.

Ian Bremmer:

Which the entire international community supported by the way, that deal.

Javad Zarif:

Yeah. But Netanyahu hated it because it ended securitization. And that tells you that the entire so-called crisis, the Iranian nuclear crisis, was more a framing, a picture that was created for the audience rather than a reality, a narrative that was created. And Israel was worried about the end of that narrative, the end of Iran being a security threat to the international community. Now, I think this time again, when Iran with the new president was opening a greater possibility for accommodation, for cooperation-

Ian Bremmer:

And by the way, a new president who has said that he wants to have better relations with the United States.

Javad Zarif:

With the rest of the world.

Ian Bremmer:

Including but specifically, he's mentioned the United States.

Javad Zarif:

Yes. He said that he wants to at least de-escalate the situation with the United States.

Ian Bremmer:

And that is part of your in principle, right? That's what your government now wants to do going forward.

Javad Zarif:

Yeah. But then they killed Haniyeh on his inauguration day in order to block that. They've done that in the past. You remember when Biden was elected as president, Israel increased its operations in Iran killing one of our nuclear scientists. And Netanyahu was on the record saying that we want to do everything to prevent Biden going back to JCPOA. So basically, they thrive on tension, on conflict, and we will not provide it to them. But that doesn't mean that we will fail to defend our territory, fail to defend our people, and fail to defend our guests.

Ian Bremmer:

So that helps to explain the restraint that the Iranians are presently shown.

Javad Zarif:

We see the plot, we see the plan, and we don't want to fall into that plot and fall into that trap. But that doesn't mean that we will come short of defending our territory and our national interests.

Ian Bremmer:

And so when I go back to the 300, 400 missiles that were sent back towards Israel again, I remember that in advance of that, there were back channels to Turkey, to Iraq saying, “Here is what Iran is planning.” It seemed to me at the time that the Iranians were doing what they could saying, "Yes, we're going to respond militarily but we really don't want this to go any further."

Javad Zarif:

And we didn't hit civilian targets.

Ian Bremmer:

And you only hit military targets.

Javad Zarif:

Only hit military targets, only hit unpopulated areas.

Ian Bremmer:

And almost no missiles got through. There was also all defendants.

Javad Zarif:

No, no, no. Quite a few missiles got through. So the Iron Dome didn't work.

Ian Bremmer:

The Americans were also involved.

Javad Zarif:

Everybody was involved, the Americans, the Brits, the French, the Germans, a lot of people.

Ian Bremmer:

The Emiratis. Yeah.

Javad Zarif:

A lot of people were involved. Still our missiles got through. The myth about Iron Dome is over. Had those missiles you see, had we targeted civilian areas with those 10, 11 missiles that hit Israel, a huge number of people could have been killed. We decided, that was a decision. These are precision weapons. We could have hit the point we wanted to hit, but we decided to hit unpopulated military targets.

Ian Bremmer:

I accept that. I accept that it was military targets. I also recognize when you have 300 plus missiles and only far fewer than 10% get through, I personally would not say the myth of Iron Dome has been shattered. I would not make that claim personally.

Javad Zarif:

You see, with those missiles, we spend much less money in sending those missiles than Israel spent in preventing them from hitting.

Ian Bremmer:

I mean the Houthis are sending very inexpensive missiles against very expensive. Yes, it's true. Look, because if you have to spend more money, you're in serious trouble, right? Let's be clear.

Javad Zarif:

It's the intention that is important.

Ian Bremmer:

No, that's a fair point.

Javad Zarif:

Had we intended to cause huge casualties, even with the 10% that hit, we would've been able to do it. We decided that was a decision, and I think the international community has to respect that. It was a decision not to cause a lot of harm.

Ian Bremmer:

I believe that however you portray the success of Iran's military capabilities, the reality is that there was a level of restraint that was clearly shown in the response. I think we can agree on that.

Javad Zarif:

Exactly.

Ian Bremmer:

I have to ask you, I want to move more broadly. I want to talk about the US. We have elections coming up because there have been allegations that I need you to be able to respond to on the record, which is that former President Trump has said that he has been briefed by US intelligence officials. His campaign announced they were briefed by US intelligence officials on real and specific threats by Iran to assassinate Trump in order to destabilize the United States. I have to give you the opportunity to refute those claims.

Javad Zarif:

Well, Iranian government has refuted that officially, and I once again refute that. We don't send people to assassinate people. I think that's a campaign ploy in order to get former President Trump out of the, well, not so favorable situation he's in in the elections, but it's up for me to decide who is going to win in the American elections. That's for the American people to decide. And Iran doesn't have a preference in this election. We don't exercise intervention in the internal affairs of other countries, unlike the United States, which does that every so often. But we don't do that. We don't interfere in the US elections. It's up to the American people to decide who will run their country.

Ian Bremmer:

So the hacking efforts that have gotten a lot of attention in terms of the electoral campaign again.

Javad Zarif:

No, you see we are ourselves victims of hacking, and it continues. Digital governance is probably an important problem that is facing the international community, particularly now with the artificial intelligence becoming so prominent. I know that you worked on this.

Ian Bremmer:

I did.

Javad Zarif:

On the digital compact-

Ian Bremmer:

With the UN. Yeah.

Javad Zarif:

With the UN. And I know that you can imagine a horrific future of artificial intelligence basically running our lives in the future. And it can be a beautiful image, it can be a horrific image. It's up to us and the global community. So the point is, hacking is a problem for everybody, and no government can control the hacking starting from its territory because hacking doesn't recognize territory, it doesn't recognize borders exactly as the information.

Ian Bremmer:

So is the Iranian government position that there may well have been the hacking-

Javad Zarif:

Operating from Iran.

Ian Bremmer:

From Iran.

Javad Zarif:

But not on behalf of Iran.

Ian Bremmer:

But not on behalf of the Iranian government.

Javad Zarif:

Yeah, exactly.

Ian Bremmer:

But in terms of the upcoming election, clearly Iran does not have a vote, and Iran is saying that they do not want to interfere. But clearly there's a difference in orientation of a US policy under a Harris administration or under a Trump administration. Under former president Trump, Qasem Soleimani was assassinated. He unilaterally, as we've discussed, pulled out of the JCPOA, the Iranian nuclear deal. And Trump is someone historically that doesn't care that much about ideology, will cut a deal with pretty much anyone. So do you see, I understand that there are worries that the bilateral relationship could be worse, but also for someone who wants to work more with the United States, maybe there's more potential for engagement. How do you see it?

Javad Zarif:

Well, there is a variety of opinion in Iran about whose election would benefit Iran, and I think the jury is out. I mean, last time, Trump-

Ian Bremmer:

The military complex, the security folks prefer Trump generally.

Javad Zarif:

Probably, I don't know. Because Trump obviously carried out a heinous crime of assassinating, the most revered general probably in Iranian history Qasem Soleimani, good friend of mine, and this is, nobody in Iran has any affection for President Trump or his company. But coming to politics, politics is a nasty game and some may prefer him. I certainly don't. I don't have any preference, but some may prefer him in Iran. Some may believe that he is more in the national interest of Iran. Some may believe that because he will isolate the United States globally, he will not be able to securitize Iran.

Going back to the securitization argument, I have a student who wrote a master's thesis with me proving that Trump failed to re-securitize Iran during his administration while he inflicted heavy economic damage. Harris is more capable of doing that because the global audience would-

Ian Bremmer:

Would be more aligned with it.

Javad Zarif:

So there are a lot of calculations that you can have about who will be more in the interest of Iran winning the election. But whatever calculations that you have, whatever ideas that you have, it doesn't mean that you can interfere in the elections of another country.

Ian Bremmer:

Now, let me ask you about Russia. The relationship that Iran has with Russia has clearly been a strong one. It's one that we have seen in many aspects, economically, militarily, technologically, diplomatically. It has been only improving, only strengthening over the course of the last two years. Talk a little bit about how Iran sees Russia and that relationship on the global stage.

Javad Zarif:

Well, Russia is a neighbor. Don't forget that. Iran And Russia have been-

Ian Bremmer:

On the Caspian.

Javad Zarif:

In the Caspian. In the past when you had the Soviet Union, we had land borders with Russia. We've had a long history, not always very positive, but we have a long history with Russia, and Russia has not been hostile to Iran like the United States and the West. Russia did not cut a straight with Iran following US withdrawal from the JCPOA, neither did China. And that is why they're friends of our difficult times, and you don't forget friends in difficult times.

Now, that's different from our view on Ukraine. The war in Ukraine from our perspective is not so clear-cut. We don't condone Russian invasion of Ukraine, but we certainly do not condone the United States provoking Russia into finding no other alternative but doing that. Now, I think the Ukrainian people were sacrificed, but I think in this atrocity against the Ukrainian people, everybody was involved, not just the Russians. The expansion of NATO, various basically going back on promises that the United States made in the 1990s, in 2008, in 2014, again, in 2021.

Ian Bremmer:

You're talking initially about Bush's conversation with Gorbachev-

Javad Zarif:

About expansion of NATO.

Ian Bremmer:

Which Gorbachev had since recanted the way that that was actually portrayed in the-

Javad Zarif:

No, but the fact of the matter is that during Bush and Clinton, the United States, in the Gorbachev conversations, the United States committed itself to take into account Russian security with regard to NATO, and it didn't. So I'm not here to defend Russia. I'm not here to say that the war in Ukraine can be condoned. Obviously, we don't believe in the use of force in international relations, but it's more complicated than the black and white picture. But when it comes to Iran, we do not want to be a part of the war in Ukraine. We want to continue to be working with Russia, and we have not been given a lot of choices because-

Ian Bremmer:

Of who you can work with.

Javad Zarif:

Yes, because of the sanctions placed on Iran by the United States and illegally accepted by Europe.

Ian Bremmer:

Let me ask you a couple of related questions. So first on Ukraine, the Chinese position is absolutely not that the Russians are solely to blame, but they have said that they recognize and accept the territorial integrity of all of Ukraine.

Javad Zarif:

So do we-

Ian Bremmer:

Including Crimea.

Javad Zarif:

So do we.

Ian Bremmer:

So do you.

Javad Zarif:

Iran is on the record not to accept acquisition of territory by force, by anybody. That's our position of principle. We have repeated that.

Ian Bremmer:

So the Russian invasion was illegal?

Javad Zarif:

In our view. But I mean, nothing can condone an act of war. But you have to understand it if you want... International relations is not about placing blame, it's about solving issues. And if you want to resolve the current unfortunate crisis in Ukraine, you have to understand what gave rise to it. The minute the United States commits itself not to expand NATO, I think the war in Ukraine will end, and I think the United States is as much to blame, if not more than Russia. So if we want to end the war in Ukraine, we have to understand the underlying reasons for it.

Ian Bremmer:

We disagree on who is to blame for the invasion of Ukraine, but I would-

Javad Zarif:

No, no, no. Russia is to blame for the invasion of Ukraine. But the United States is responsible for what led to that invasion.

Ian Bremmer:

I would argue that we disagree on it.

Javad Zarif:

Okay. Disagree to disagree.

Ian Bremmer:

But that's okay. No, it's a conversation. We're not going to agree on everything. But I am interested, yes, Iran is under a very tough sanctions regime. You have very few choices of who you can work with. But the Iranians are engaging with Russia, not just in terms of trade of goods, but also of drones, also a military cooperation, including military cooperation that is being used to help the Russians.

Javad Zarif:

When you have limited avenues of trade, you don't pick and choose.

Ian Bremmer:

Yeah. So this is really a question of you'd love to be able to do more with other countries, but absent that, if you're helping the Russians with an illegal war, you're going to help the Russians with an illegal war.

Javad Zarif:

Our cooperation with Russia is totally legal. We have not participated in the war efforts in Ukraine.

Ian Bremmer:

Building drone factories that Russians are using in Russia.

Javad Zarif:

You see, we have limited options in foreign trade, and the reason we have limited options in foreign trade is because the United States has illegally imposed sanctions against us in violation of UN Security Council resolution. That's it.

Ian Bremmer:

I'm not saying you don't feel like you have justification to take those steps. I'm simply saying that the reality is this isn't just economic trade with Russia, it is participating in the war effort.

Javad Zarif:

No, we are not participating in the war effort. We're not participating in the war. We're simply conducting business.

Ian Bremmer:

Don't you think that the United States in providing weapons to Ukraine is actually participating in the war effort? Don't you believe that?

Javad Zarif:

Well, the United States is directly providing weapons in order for the Ukrainians to use it. We don't.

Ian Bremmer:

You don't provide drones to Russia for them to use?

Javad Zarif:

We simply engage in an economic relations with Russia. You see, the United States is providing all the weapons to Israel to kill innocent people in Gaza. So the United States is not in a position-

Ian Bremmer:

So you would say that the US is participating in the war effort in Gaza.

Javad Zarif:

In Gaza, we say the United States is complicit in the atrocities being committed in Gaza because the United States has the capability to end the war in Gaza and it doesn't. Whereas Iran has said time and again that we are prepared to use whatever influence, which is limited, in order to end the war in Ukraine. So these are two different situations. But certainly for the United States, which is actively supporting a genocide in Gaza, United States is not in a position to tell Iran who to do business with.

Ian Bremmer:

I am not representing the US government.

Javad Zarif:

I know you don't.

Ian Bremmer:

I'm simply asking as a political scientist that your position is that the Iranians have no complicity in the Ukraine war, despite the support militarily of Iran.

Javad Zarif:

Yeah, because we don't condone the war.

Ian Bremmer:

But there is military support of Iran.

Javad Zarif:

There's no military support for the war. We simply engage in business.

Ian Bremmer:

Defense establishment business. Just defense establishment business selling, building. Yeah, they could use it anywhere. They could use it anywhere, you don't know why they're using it.

Javad Zarif:

Everybody in the world sells weapons.

Ian Bremmer:

Yes. Not everybody.

Javad Zarif:

Well, everybody who has the capability.

Ian Bremmer:

I mean, Costa Rica, I'm pretty sure isn't selling weapons-

Javad Zarif:

Have the capability of building weapons, nor does it need to build weapons.

Ian Bremmer:

That's why I just had to call you out on that.

Javad Zarif:

No, no, no. Everybody has the capability and has the need-

Ian Bremmer:

Don't make me do this.

Javad Zarif:

No, no. Everybody with the capability and with the need. Well, we didn't want to build weapons. Why did we? Because nobody gave it to us. When we were fighting the Iraqis, everybody was providing the Iraqis with all sophisticated weapons, and we didn't get anything to defend ourselves. They were the aggressor.

Ian Bremmer:

So Vice President Zarif, before I let you go, and I know we're running short on time here.

Javad Zarif:

Okay.

Ian Bremmer:

You come back in a year's time at the United Nations, do you believe whoever wins the US election, do you believe that the US-Iran relationship will be better, will be in a better position than it's right now?

Javad Zarif:

Well, certainly hope that we can contain the differences that we can de-escalate the tension, and I certainly hope that we can resume the agreement that the US broke.

Ian Bremmer:

Vice President Zarif, thanks for being here.

Javad Zarif:

Thank you for inviting me.

Ian Bremmer:

That's it for today's edition of the GZERO World Podcast. Do you like what you heard? Of course you do. Why not make it official? Why don't you rate and review GZERO World five stars, only five stars, otherwise don't do it, on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Tell your friends.