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For decades, nuclear war has represented the ultimate doomsday scenario. But investigative journalist and author Annie Jacobsen says biological warfare may pose an even greater overall threat. Unlike nuclear weapons, which require tightly controlled materials, enormously expensive delivery systems, and specialized expertise, the barriers to developing biological weapons can be far lower. And artificial intelligence could lower them further.

Ian Bremmer sits down with Jacobsen to discuss how AI is changing the landscape of catastrophic risk. As increasingly powerful models make sophisticated scientific knowledge easier to access, they could allow bad actors to bypass years of specialized training and dramatically shorten the path from an idea to a potentially dangerous capability.

They also explore the struggle to govern a technology developing faster than regulators can respond, the gaps in existing AI safeguards, and what governments and tech companies could do to identify dangerous vulnerabilities before they are exploited. And they step back to a larger question at the heart of Jacobsen’s work: Why does humanity keep developing technologies with the potential to threaten its own survival – and can our ability to manage those risks ever catch up with our ability to create them?