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Iraq then and now: Reflections from NBC's Richard Engel
As a young freelance journalist, Richard Engel was one of the only US TV journalists to broadcast from Baghdad throughout the US-led invasion of Iraq. On the 20th anniversary of the start of the Iraq War, Engel, NBC's chief foreign correspondent, shares the story of how he ended up reporting on the ground and what he saw after troops arrived.
Despite limited access for journalists, Engel was able to get into Iraq by applying "human shield" visa and entered the country under the guise of a peace activist. What he found upon arrival was a population beaten down by years of dictatorship, and a choatic, disorganized government. As the invasion began, more and more people came out of the shadows, and expressed their joy that “ Americans were coming in and getting rid of Saddam,” according to Engel.
However, the aftermath of Saddam's removal was a different story. "When Saddam was driven out of power, there was a wonderful reception for about a year. And then it got very, very ugly," Engel says. He attributes the increasing animosity to mistakes made by the American administration and lingering resentment by the Sunni Muslim community. This led to a dangerous and hostile environment that "changed the dynamic" of the region.
Watch the GZERO World episode: Iraq War's legacy: Loss of lives, rise of ISIS, & political turmoil
Thomas P. Susdorf from the film “Gunner Palace."
“In war, everything matters.” An interview with filmmaker Mike Tucker
Twenty years ago today, the US invaded Iraq. Just weeks later, the American filmmaker — and frequent GZERO contributor — Mike Tucker embedded with a group of fresh-faced US troops in Iraq, to make the film “Gunner Palace.”
It was the first great documentary about the war – a gripping, chaotic, and occasionally darkly humorous portrait of what was, basically, a group of kids sent to kill in a country that they knew little about. One of those soldiers, Specialist Thomas P. Susdorf, is pictured above.
“To be a combat veteran is awesome, it’ll be great to look back on,” says one of Susdorf's fellow gunners partway through the film, “I’m just trying to get to the point where I can look back on it.”
That point is now. During the pandemic, Mike and co-director Petra Epperlein crisscrossed the United States, tracking down the Gunner Palace kids to learn how the war has shaped their lives ever since.
The resulting short film, co-produced by the Eurasia Group Foundation and published last week by The New York Times, is called “The Army We Had.”
In it, Tucker and Epperlein cut footage of the idealistic, war-hungry recruits of “Gunner Palace” against interviews with the people they’ve become today: men slouching into middle age, still warped by the traumas and unanswered questions of the war. Who were they fighting? Why were they there? What good did it do?
Mike is currently in Ukraine, but we grabbed a few minutes of his time to ask him about the lessons of “The Army We Had,” the biggest differences between Ukraine and Iraq, and what he thinks most people don’t understand about the experience of war.
His answers have been lightly edited.
Alex Kliment: Mike, congratulations on the new film. Where are you right now and what are you up to?
I’m in Ukraine currently, where we’ve been shooting a project for the last seven months about how a ragtag army of volunteers is getting machines and material to the front lines.
What’s the main lesson that you want people to take away from “The Army We Had?”
It’s crucial that America rethinks how and when it authorizes force. After all the death, suffering, sacrifice, deployments and military spending in Iraq, it’s hard to point to any positive outcomes. Even if it’s difficult, we need to debate and exhaust all other options before we commit to war. You can see that in the faces of the soldiers in the film.
Twenty years after “Gunner Palace,” you’re in the middle of an equally era-defining war in Ukraine. How do the two experiences compare?
The war in Ukraine couldn’t be more different from Iraq. For one thing, rather than filming the aggressor, this time I’m filming people resisting Russian aggression, and I feel it’s essential for people in the West to understand that.
But also, technology has changed everything. The invasion of Iraq was before YouTube. Before social media. Now in Ukraine, combatants are flooding social media with content – with a raw immediacy that dwarfs anything we’ve ever seen — to the point that I think we risk becoming numb to the horror.
You’ve spent a lot of time in and around war, what do you think the general public understands least well about the experience?
Well as for Ukraine right now, what people aren’t seeing on the news is the psychological impact on Ukrainian civilians. Air alarms ring out around Kyiv 2-3 times a day. Worst of all, it all feels normal, when it’s anything but.
But to paraphrase [American journalist] Chris Hedges, “war gives us meaning.” I like to think of the “Gunner Palace” year as both the best and worst year of those soldiers’ lives, and I think many of them would agree. They’ll never feel that close to other people ever again. And for many of them, regardless of the problems with the mission itself, some will never feel such purpose again. In war — around war — everything matters.
You can (and should!) watch the film “The Army We Had” here.
Richard Engel on Iraq, Ukraine, and the danger of 'wars of choice'
Richard Engel, NBC's Chief Foreign Correspondent, was one of the few US TV journalists on the ground in Baghdad when the US-led invasion of Iraq began in 2003. Engel joins GZERO World to reflect on his experience covering the Iraq War as a freelance journalist, and what lessons he took away as he covers other global conflicts, like the war in Ukraine.
Engel recounts the lead-up to the war in 2003, when it was very difficult to enter Iraq, and how he ended up getting into the country on a "human shield" visa. Once inside, he found a population that was beaten down by years of dictatorship, and a chaotic, disorganized government. While many Iraqis expressed their joy that "Americans were coming in and getting rid of Saddam," it got ugly very quickly. The Bush Administration made a lot of mistakes, and there was lingering resentment from the Sunni Muslim community, which led to anger and animosity.
Engel reflects on the state of Iraq 20 years after the war began. While the country is safer now, the Iraq War led to the emergence of ISIS and a three year civil war. There's ongoing instability and political violence following massive protests in 2019 against corruption and sectarianism. "They're much freer," Engel says, "They're better than they were under Saddam, but they haven't been embraced as a fully-functioning country yet."
Engel cautions against engaging in a “war of choice,” drawing parallels to the invasion of Ukraine, which he views as a war of choice for Russia. "Don't do a war of choice," Engel emphasizes, "War truly must be the last resort."
Watch the GZERO World episode: Iraq War's legacy: Loss of lives, rise of ISIS, & political turmoil
From combat pilot to Senator: Tammy Duckworth's reflections on the Iraq War
Reflecting on the 20-year anniversary of the start of the Iraq War, Senator Tammy Duckworth on GZERO World shares her personal experience as a combat pilot and how losing both her legs during the war pushed her to keep serving her country through government. As a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, she stresses the importance of keeping the promises made to veterans, saying that "breaking those promises impacts military readiness."
Senator Duckworth acknowledges the progress made in Iraq, noting that "people are significantly better off than they were under Saddam Hussein." However, she believes that Iraq "is somewhat unfinished business" due to the high unemployment rates faced by young people, and hopes it can become a "friend and ally" to the United States.
The Senator also expresses concerns about the influence of Iran and factions within Iraq, including within the government. She highlights the ongoing issues in the Kurdistan region, where the Kurds face negative oversight from the government in Baghdad while trying to run their autonomous area responsibly. According to Senator Duckworth, "there is still much work to be done in Iraq," even after two decades.
Watch the GZERO World episode: Iraq War's legacy: Loss of lives, rise of ISIS, & political turmoil
Ian Explains: 20 years since the Iraq War: Lessons learned, questions raised
The 2003 US-led invasion of Iraq, dubbed "Operation Iraqi Freedom," began 20 years ago. The Bush Administration told the world that Saddam Hussein was developing weapons of mass destruction and the war would last weeks, but none of that was true.
In fact, almost nothing in the Iraq War went as planned. The US wasn't prepared for a violent insurgency that lasted years, killing thousands of US troops and hundreds of thousands of civilians. And two decades from its start, the war still casts a long shadow––the rise of ISIS, a civil war, ongoing violence and political turmoil.
With 20 years of hindsight, can we say the world is better off after the invasion of Iraq? What about Iraq itself? And what lessons can we learn to avoid repeating the mistakes of the past?
These are the questions Ian Bremmer asks US Senator Tammy Duckworth, who served in Iraq, and NBC's chief foreign correspondent, Richard Engel on GZERO World with Ian Bremmer. Watch the episode on US public television or right here: Iraq War's legacy: Loss of lives, rise of ISIS, & political turmoil
Senator Tammy Duckworth discusses unfinished business in Iraq & the true cost of war
US Senator Tammy Duckworth (D-IL), a combat pilot who lost both her legs in Iraq, joins GZERO World to reflect on the 20th anniversary of the US-led invasion. In her conversation with Ian Bremmer, Duckworth says that the first thing people need to understand is that the "cost of war" goes on far longer than the period of actual conflict. She emphasizes the importance of “fulfilling promises made to veterans,” and says it's "non-negotiable."
While acknowledging the progress made in Iraq after Saddam Hussein was removed from power, Duckworth believes that the country "is somewhat unfinished business," and worries about high unemployment rates for young people, concerns about Iranian influence, and negative oversight of the Kurdistan region. She hopes Iraq can become “a friend and ally to the United States.”
The work is quite done yet," Senator Duckworth says, "But the work of the military is certainly done."
Watch the GZERO World episode: Iraq War's legacy: Loss of lives, rise of ISIS, & political turmoil
From Iraq to Ukraine: Reflections on "wars of choice"
In their discussion on GZERO World, Ian Bremmer and NBC's chief foreign correspondent, Richard Engel, delve into the lessons that can be gleaned from the Iraq war in light of the ongoing conflict in Ukraine. Engel's key takeaway is to avoid “a war of choice,” as resistance from the invaded people can make the situation worse.
Drawing parallels with Iraq, he notes that “Ukraine is also a war of choice for Russia,” despite the perception of an existential crisis. Unlike Iraq, the situation in Ukraine has a clear narrative of one country trying to occupy another.
When asked about how the Iraqi people are doing 20 years after the war, Engel notes that there is no easy answer. While the people are now "freer" and the "economy is connected to the world," the country has experienced ongoing instability and a civil war. Although Iraq has made strides since the days of Saddam's regime, they are not yet fully functioning or embraced by the larger Middle East. Engel cautions, "I don't think they've landed yet."
Watch the GZERO World episode: Iraq War's legacy: Loss of lives, rise of ISIS, & political turmoil
Podcast: The costs of invading Iraq: Sen. Tammy Duckworth & Richard Engel assess war's lasting effects, 20 years later
Listen: It's been 20 years since the US-led invasion of Iraq began. Can we say the world is any better off? Despite its official end over a decade ago, the war still casts a long shadow––the loss of countless Iraqi lives, the emergence of ISIS, and continued political turmoil and sectarian violence in the region. Moreover, the war significantly damaged the United States' credibility, making it difficult to gather global support against current threats such as Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
On the GZERO World podcast, Ian Bremmer interviews US Senator Tammy Duckworth and NBC News Chief Foreign Correspondent Richard Engel. Their firsthand experiences and perspectives offer a more profound comprehension of the intricate legacy of the Iraq War and its implications for international politics.
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