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Mark Kelly on the new space race
On GZERO World, Ian Bremmer delves into the modern space race and its role as a critical domain for global security with Arizona Senator and former astronaut Mark Kelly. They discuss China’s growing ambitions, the future of the International Space Station, and the evolving role of private companies like SpaceX in shaping US space policy.
In a wide-ranging conversation, Kelly is clear-eyed about China’s ambitious space goals, including lunar missions and collaboration with Russia to build a lunar base, sparking concerns over the militarization of space. “They [China] just returned a sample from the backside of the moon. Nobody’s done that.” Senator Kelly also discusses the International Space Station’s eventual decommissioning and the importance of international cooperation, particularly with allies such as Europe, Canada, and Japan. Yet, tensions, especially with adversaries like China and Russia, loom large in the space domain.
“We’ve got to make sure that we can counter their capability, but also… prevent them from using space as a domain in any future conflict,” Kelly tells Bremmer. A key concern is how space assets, such as spy satellites and anti-satellite weapons, could be used in future conflicts. The conversation also touches on private-sector involvement in space, with companies like SpaceX playing pivotal roles in both space exploration and geopolitical issues, including the role of Starlink in the war in Ukraine. “I would hope that US companies… align with us and our values,” Kelly tells Bremmer.
GZERO World with Ian Bremmer, the award-winning weekly global affairs series, airs nationwide on US public television stations (check local listings).
New digital episodes of GZERO World are released every Monday on YouTube. Don''t miss an episode: subscribe to GZERO's YouTube channel and turn on notifications (🔔).
The new space race: Sen. Mark Kelly on China's bold ambitions, America's policy & Russian threat
Listen: On this episode of the GZERO World podcast, Ian Bremmer takes a close look at the evolving US-China space race and its implications for global security, competition, and international collaboration. He is joined by Arizona Senator Mark Kelly, a former Navy pilot and NASA astronaut who offers firsthand insights into the future of US space policy.
Kelly also sheds light on China's ambitious space goals, including lunar missions and partnerships with Russia, raising concerns about the militarization of space. He emphasizes the need for the US to counter these developments and maintain space as a peaceful domain. Kelly discusses the eventual decommissioning of the International Space Station and highlights the importance of collaboration with allies like Europe, Canada, and Japan. The episode also covers the growing role of private companies like SpaceX, which are not only shaping space exploration but also playing crucial roles in geopolitical conflicts, including the war in Ukraine, through initiatives like Starlink.
Subscribe to the GZERO World Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or your preferred podcast platform, to receive new episodes as soon as they're published.
Ian Explains: Who's winning the US-China space race?
Are we in a 21st-century space race with China? And if so, who’s winning? On Ian Explains, Ian Bremmer breaks down China’s ambitious space program, which in the last few years has sent a rover to Mars, built a space station, and returned samples from the far side of the moon–something no country has done before. By 2035, it plans to build a lunar base with Russia on the moon’s south pole. However, intelligence experts are concerned China’s activity in space is more directly tied to its military than it’s letting on. A 1967 UN treaty bans military activity on the moon but not military activity in space altogether. The final frontier could be the next battleground. Can the US space program, boosted by private space companies like SpaceX and Blue Origin, counter China’s lunar ambitions? Is this the end of the post-Soviet era of international space cooperation? Ian Bremmer breaks down the astronomical stakes of the next era of space exploration.
Look for the full episode, with an interview with former astronaut Senator Mark Kelly on GZERO World with Ian Bremmer, airing on US public television (check local listings).
New digital episodes of GZERO World are released every Monday on YouTube. Don''t miss an episode: subscribe to GZERO's YouTube channel and turn on notifications (🔔).
Can the US stay ahead of Russia & China in the space race?
Should the United States be concerned about Chinese and Russian military activity in space? And is the US prepared for space warfare?
Senator Mark Kelly (D-AZ) joined Ian Bremmer on GZERO World to talk about the future of US space policy and the 21st-century space race with Russia and China. Senator Kelly, a former NASA astronaut and Space Shuttle commander, says that while the recent achievements of China’s space program are impressive, the US is still way ahead of China in any space endeavor. His main concern? Making sure we stay ahead of both Russia and China and prevent them from using space as a domain for future military conflict. Kelly also worries that, given Putin’s openness to violating international law, he may renege on the 1967 UN Space Treaty that prevents any country from using the moon for military purposes, officially ending the post-Soviet era of US-Russia space cooperation.
“Every space flight I went on, there were always Russians on board the space station. And that cooperation worked really well,” Kelly tells Bremmer, “What Putin did in Ukraine is indicative of, well, did that even matter?”
Look for the full interview with Senator Mark Kelly on GZERO World with Ian Bremmer, airing on US public television soon (check local listings).
New digital episodes of GZERO World are released every Monday on YouTube. Don''t miss an episode: subscribe to GZERO's YouTube channel and turn on notifications (🔔).
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US presidential debate: More risk for Biden than Trump
Ian Bremmer shares his insights on global politics this week on World In :60.
What do you expect from the first Trump-Biden debate?
Well, I'm going to be watching it. I am a little surprised it's happening, that they agreed on the rules which are more favorable to Biden and to so-called normal politicians. But, you know, we'll see. I think there's a lot more downside for Biden precisely because his age is perceived to be so much more of a problem. The State of the Union, he did very well. But this is a live-fire exercise. It's not a set piece. And so in that regard, there's more ways you can go badly. Having said that, if he's able to stand his ground, and if Trump seems like he's slobbing more, this is a lot more about how they appear than what they actually say. You hate to say that something is important as US presidential race, but of course, that is a lot of what American politics, especially the elections, are about.
With formal EU membership talks beginning, is Ukraine closer to accession?
Yeah. I mean, every step you can take, it's a long process. It is absolutely making it easier for the Ukrainians to actually get in. But let's keep in mind there's a lot of uncertainty out there. First of all, with French elections coming up soon, if it turns out that Le Pen's National Rally party gets a majority. Hung parliaments more likely, but if it gets a majority, she could shut down, lots of components of EU accession talks, which would include Ukraine. The Parliament would no longer support additional movement and that's a problem. You need all 27 states to allow this to go through. And France is in a position where that might be the case. Also if Trump wins in the US, keep in mind Trump does not support a strong united EU. He wants further exits. He wants a weak EU to the extent that that gives space for people like Orbán and other European members that are more skeptic to oppose accession, it could get more challenging. So, I don't think this is a done deal by any means.
China just brought back rocks from the far side of the moon. The first time that's happened. Are we in a new Space Race?
Well, we are in the sense that the Chinese care a lot about having more capacity in space for scientific achievement, for national pride and also for national security. But still, if you look at the number of satellites that are up there, I mean, you know, the United States is nine times, so 900% greater. That's a pretty big deal. And that is not NASA. That is the private sector in the US. It is Elon and SpaceX. It is Jeff Bezos. It's other companies. And the fact that the entrepreneurship in the U.S has allowed American space exploration to grow, which NASA can fund and the Pentagon can fund and take advantage of, has been a huge advantage for the US.
Doesn't mean they're all and always aligned with American national security, but it's certainly not a space race versus the Chinese.
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An Iranian woman is walking under a billboard that is displaying an image of the Iranian Qased satellite carrier in a residential area in northwestern Tehran, Iran, on December 13, 2023.
An Axis of ... Rockets?
On Saturday, Iran launched the Soraya satellite about 750 kilometers above the Earth’s surface, its highest orbit so far. Iran’s civilian space program first successfully launched a satellite back in 2009 and then had some success with light, limited-lifespan satellites, but it struggled with more heavy-duty rockets, leading to multiple failed launches.
Today, space tech is a key priority for Tehran, and it kicked off 2023 with a 10-year plan to reach its goal of sending a human into the final frontier. It will have Moscow’s help along the way, thanks to an agreement signed in December 2022 formalizing cooperation between their space agencies. An Iranian imaging satellite had already caught a ride on a Russian rocket in August 2022, one month after Russian President Vladimir Putin visited Iran. It was his first foreign trip following his invasion of Ukraine, for which Iran has supplied key drones.
Hermit Kingdom blasts off
North Korea’s space program managed only two successful satellite launches before last year. But in September 2023, after two embarrassing failures to launch a spy satellite, Putin hosted Supreme Leader Kim Jong Un at a spaceport near Vladivostok. Kim pledged to support Putin in Ukraine, while Putin told reporters he would help with North Korea’s space program.
Lo and behold, about two months later, Pyongyang finally got its spy satellite in orbit. Kim is aiming to launch three more this year.
What to watch
Western governments are worried that lessons learned from putting satellites in space could be applied to dropping nukes on cities.
It’s not an idle concern: The rockets Pyongyang used for its successful satellite launches are based on the Taepodong-2 and Hwaseong-17 ballistic missiles. The Qaem 100 that Iran used on Saturday was designed by the Revolutionary Guard Corps, the elite branch of the Iranian military that controls the missile forces.
Greg Brew, an Iran analyst at Eurasia Group, says Iran is playing at a larger nuclear hedge strategy. Tehran, he says, focuses on developing civilian nuclear and rocket technology that will allow a “sprint” to build nuclear bombs and ICBMs if needed – without attracting international opprobrium from building and testing them in the meantime. But while Russia may be willing to help with the civilian side, Brew adds, nuclear tech is an ace Moscow holds close.
“The evidence would suggest Iran-Russia space cooperation is still focused on non-weapons aspects, but it all lays the foundation for potential further cooperation to develop,” he said.
War in space? Time to update space law
The UN wants to prevent an arms race in space. How? By reforming international space law, which hasn't been updated in more than 50 years.
The current treaty was negotiated during the Cold War, when only two countries — the US and the Soviet Union — had viable programs. Ratified by 111 countries, it bans space nukes and grants all countries the right to peacefully explore space — including the Moon.
The 1967 Outer Space Treaty also says countries can’t claim sovereignty over celestial bodies. But that was before private space exploration by the likes of Richard Branson or Jeff Bezos.
The UN thinks it's time to update the law with more concrete rules and norms not only to prevent conflict, but also to regulate things like future mining on the Moon.
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Tech in 60 Seconds: Apple's Revenue, China Space Race, and Uber for Kids
China lands on the far side of the moon, and just might be leading the space race.
It's Tech in 60 Seconds with Nicholas Thompson!
And go deeper on issues like cybersecurity and artificial intelligence at Microsoft Today in Technology.